It’s no secret social media is destroying society by bringing us all closer together so we never have to speak to one another again. I consider dating apps to be part of this problem as it has reduced emotional connection to human shopping.
But I never understood to what extent until I met a woman in Utah named Kathleen. In April of 2024, Kathleen and I matched on Bumble, and as people who match on Bumble do, we texted a bit on the app and decided to meet in person.
Attraction is both physical and mental, and there needs to be some of both to get a relationship off the ground. Once you’ve spent some time together, and you get to know someone, the mental and emotional compatibility should overwhelm the physical as you start to truly value each other’s company.
With just some texting under our belts, it was much too early to be emotionally or mentally connected, and when I met her at the bakery we agreed upon, I knew in about three seconds that there was no physical connection.
Right or wrong, I’m someone who will put in a good 20-30 minutes, even if I know it’s not going anywhere, just to see if there’s something there. Or, at least, as a courtesy, since we both made the effort to show up. (I know some who will abandon ship and walk out immediately, but that’s just not who I am.)
After a brief stint at the bakery, we walked across the parking lot to Scheels, a huge amusement park of a sporting goods store that is very conspicuously visible off highway 15 in Utah. It’s a huge building, and I’d been told many times to check it out. I figured this was my chance, and we went in.
She was British (and probably still is), and I spent my junior year in England, so that seemed fertile ground for at least ten minutes of conversation as we explored the vast expanse of Scheels. It was interesting enough, but then the conversation turned.
Kathleen asked me if I’d ever heard of the Facebook group “Are we dating the same guy?” No, I hadn’t. So she explained to me what it is.
“Are we dating the same guy?” is a regional Facebook group. Most cities have their own localized version. The purpose of the site varies, depending on who you speak to. (I’ve asked several women and heard different responses.)
The first line of thinking is that it’s a place where women can go and post pictures from a guy’s dating profile, along with their name, to ask if anyone has met or gone on a date with the guy. It’s a way to seek information: Is he nice? Is he married? (Which is sadly all-too-common with men in Utah… old habits?) Was he abusive? Was he nice? It’s kind of a Yelp for dating apps. (And yes, there is a male version of this group, as well, where men do this with women’s profiles.)
The second rationale I’ve heard is for women who are sexually, physically, or verbally abused by someone on the app to proactively post the guy’s picture on the site as a warning to anyone considering seeing this guy. (It shouldn’t be too much of a stretch to see how this could be easily and maliciously weaponized.)
Like Fight Club, the first rule of “Are we dating the same guy?” is that you don’t talk about “Are we dating the same guy?” You don’t discuss it with other women. And you certainly don’t talk to men about it.
But Kathleen mentioned it to me on this date, and I immediately got fairly irritated about it. I don’t think this sort of site should exist in any way, shape, matter, faction, or form.
It’s a privacy nightmare. You’re posting pictures of men on social media without their permission or knowledge. They have no idea they’re even on these sites. And if you’re a person like me, and you’re careful about what you put on social media–namely nothing–it’s very frustrating to know that people who don’t know you at all are writing things about you that could affect the ways others do (or don’t) interact with you.
She went on to explain the reason she asked is because she looked me up, and I was on it.
Seeing I was even more irritated, she quickly tried to diffuse my anger by telling me me that it was just one person who had posted my picture, asking if anyone had any experience with me, and it was a good thing because only one person responded, and they said, “he was nice, but we just weren’t compatible and it didn’t work out.”
This was supposed to make me feel better. It didn’t.
I don’t like not having control over my presence, internet or otherwise. (Yes, I realize I don’t, anyway… but this seems egregious.) The idea that people can post a picture of me without me knowing and discuss me like they know me immediately made me empathetic of what it must be like for kids in high school–especially the ones who get bullied.
At this point, we had pretty much circled Scheels, our half hour was over, and we went our separate ways. But later that night, I received a text from her.
“Hi. I had a really great time with you. I thought we had a really good vibe and connection, but I just have one question: Are you married?” (I’m not sure if she meant to text me, because we had neither a good vibe or connection… but she went on.) “I’m just trying to clarify this.”
I said, “No. I have great clarity on this subject. I was there for the whole thing. I am divorced and no longer married.”
She said, “I’m confused because I saw this post on LinkedIn,” and she attached a screenshot of a post I had written two months earlier talking about how I had gotten my job at PC World magazine in 1993. In it, I mentioned some of the great people I met there, including a parenthetical saying, “that’s also where I met my wife.”
She said, “But you mentioned your wife, and this was two months ago.” So I clarified this for her by telling her, “Unlike many people on LinkedIn, I don’t air out the details of my personal life in front of everyone, so I’m not going to be discussing my divorce on Linkedin. And the truth is, I did meet my wife at work back in the 90s. And I didn’t think it would read very well to say “where I met my ex-wife.”
Kathleen went on to say, “I’m just confused because you wrote about your wife,” to which I responded, “It’s not very confusing at all. I’m not married. My full name is Jon Friesch, and if you do a background check, you’ll quickly find out I’m not married.” (Though, I found out later that divorce records are sealed from the public… relevant later.)
Later that night, she called me twice, but I didn’t see the calls until later, so I didn’t answer. But the next morning, I called her, but she didn’t answer. So I texted her to say “This is Jon, and I wanted to let you know I called you back.” I never heard from her again, but I had a sneaking suspicion where this was going next.
Fast forward a week later, and I went on a date with a someone else. We met and had some dinner at a place. It was funny because she asked me back to her place by stating, unequivocally, that she never asks men back to her place and this wasn’t that. She just wanted to continue talking.
So we went to her home, sat down after a quick tour, and continued the conversation. I asked her if she was familiar with the “Are we dating the same guy?” group, and she said, “Yes. I am. I’m on it and a member.” She went on to say she doesn’t use it herself, but uses it to check guys for some of her friends.
I said “Great. Could you please check something for me? Could we look me up?” She said sure, and she looked me up. Sure enough, the post Kathleen had described was still there, but with an additional comment… from Kathleen. Under the initial post asking if anyone knew anything about me, she posted, “He’s married,” with a screenshot of the LinkedIn post.
Had I not had that conversation with Kathleen the prior week, that post would just be there telling everyone I’m married, and I wouldn’t know a thing about it. I wouldn’t be able to address it. I wouldn’t be able to refute it. There are 44,000 women on the Utah Facebook group, and any members who looked would just see that and assume I’m another lying Utah guy trying to date around without “my wife” knowing.
I would just be out there in dating app land, getting no matches, and having no idea why.
Unfortunately, the date with this other woman took a turn and didn’t end that well either, because I was livid, and it was hard to be polite and contain it. (Though, fortunately, I’m from the Midwest, and polite is one of our things.) But I don’t do well in those situations until I can address the problem and resolve it.
[As a funny aside, with all of this fact checking going on, the woman had told me she was 57, but gave me her phone to check the Facebook group. On her phone was her profile, which I started looking at again. I noticed that her profile said she was 52, but she told me she was 57. She said her friends built the profile for her because they thought she should “get herself out there.” (A fairly common reason, I suspect for at least a small percentage of the profiles out there on the apps.)]
The date ended soon after that, and I went home to draft a fairly detailed and legal-like email to Kathleen. (Unfortunately, I’ve had some experience with defamation and documentation, so I had an idea what i was doing.) In it, I wrote a heavily detailed summary of our meeting, our post-meet text exchange, and how I found about her telling the group I was married.
After the recap, I also let her know, in no uncertain terms, that I am, in fact, divorced. I offered to meet her in a place of her choosing to show her my records of my divorce. (I was not going to share any screenshots, as they are private records, but I was happy to prove this to her, since I couldn’t remove her post or address it myself.)
Then, to make sure she understood I was talking specifically about defamation, I wrote this: “To be clear, I am accusing you of posting something on that Facebook page about me that is not true, and I’m confident this can be proven. Please take down what you posted on Facebook about me falsely stating that I am married and verify to me that you did. If you do not, I will pursue all remedies, up to, and including, legal action to get this resolved. And since the legal remedy is simply me proving I’m divorced, which I can do in about five seconds, it should be a fairly straightforward defamation case.”
A half day later, she responded (and this is the best part) by saying “Comments were taken down, and I expect YOU NEVER to make contact with me again.” To which I responded, “Thank you, I appreciate that, but I think you may have lost track of which of us should be indignant right now.”
I’ve talked to many friends about this page since this incident, and many of my women friends said this page is necessary to be safe because you just don’t know what men are capable of doing. I’ve not spoken to any men about this, but I’m not sure I agree with this.
This is vigilantism. On this site, women are determining men are guilty without them ever being given a chance to share their side. Without them even knowing they’ve been judged guilty. Women and men can go on their respective sites and say whatever they want with no checking mechanism, no feedback, no ramifications, no consequences, and men and women will have no idea anything was even said about them.
Look at my case. That could have been out there without me even knowing. I’m seriously seeking someone special, and that would have greatly harmed my reputation and my efforts–without me even knowing.
I understand the desire for a safe experience. But the fact is, life is not safe. We all take chances. If you are attempting to date someone you don’t know, whether you found them on an app or were set up by a friend, you just can’t know who the person is or what’s going to happen.
99 times out of 100, it’ll probably go fine. You may meet someone special or you may decide to leave it at the first date. And sure, it could go wrong. Horribly wrong. And if it does, that would be tragic, and no one wants that.
But the world is not a safe place. You take chances every morning you wake up. Anything can happen to you during the day. As soon as you get in a car, you’re taking another risk. You could run into the wrong person at a gas station. Someone at work may have it in for you.
If you’re going to pursue people you don’t know, you’re taking a chance. Sure, you can mitigate the risks as best as possible, but nothing is a sure thing. It doesn’t help that we’re in a post-consequences society where the moral rot and decay is growing so fast we can see it. But in the end, nothing is guaranteed.
Life is not safe, and it never has been. I know some have tried suing these Facebook groups, but none have succeeded… yet. But here’s hoping.